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tv   Cavuto  FOX Business  April 19, 2013 8:00pm-9:00pm EDT

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steve emerson, thhnk you. charlie payne, thank you for being with us. stay tuned for continuing coverage of the boston manhunt. neil cavuto coming up here next. good night from new york. neil: thank you, lou, very, very much. in a boat, up a creek without a paddle did and without any way out, now the question is, is dzhokhar tsarnaev that suspect, in that boat without any way out? and are some of the shots and explosions heard in the last few minutes somehow linked to him, from him, being aimed at him? is he still alive? we just don't know. but we do know that it's on going and it is all happening right now at 67 franklin street in watertown, massachusetts, and f course this comes at a time when this city only minutes earlier had gotten a reprieve from no less than the governor to come out
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your homes to relax, your guard can be let down. you can ease up and then the shots started firing up. within just the last half hour or so, we're told better than 30 shots fired. and within the last five minutes or so we're told at least three large explosions heard. eric sawn? -- sean in boston with the very latest. do we know in fact that the suspect hiding in that boat backyard is dzhokhar tsarnaev? >> reporter: we only know from reports and from sources it is believed that it is the suspect number two who was, reportedly inside that boat. we heard some of those bangs just a few minutes ago, and neil, this is a very dramatic turn of events this evening. this appears this is a standoff. reports say he is alive and surrounded. those bangs could potentially have an like, perhaps those flash bangs police sometimes use in
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hostage negotiating and standoffs with armed suspects to try to rattle them and this sort of thing. what we do know is this. this happened very suddenly this evening in very dramatic sudden turn about an hour after the order was lift, the order kept one million people in boston and watertown and cambridge in their homes for the last 18 hours or so, the governor was here, along with top state officials. they admitted that dzhokar apparently fled. they were not able to get him. they thought he was in massachusetts. they didn't know where. they spent all this time for the last 17 hours searching a 20 block radius in watertown, going through every house that they possibly could to try to find him. that was unsuccessful. so they announced the lifting of the order. that is the point where the woman who lives on franklin street and looked out the back saw the door to her shed was open and she saw bloody clothes there over by this boat and the tarp was lifted off the boat. so she called police.
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that was when we suddenly saw a bevy of activity. humvees and armored personnel carriers and police just screaming past our position here in watertown, going to franklin street in which apparently the suspect was at that point, pinned down. there was a fuselage of 20 to 30 gunshots at some point indicating possibly there was obviously an exchange of gunfire with the police and the suspect. as it stands right now we believe he is inside that boat, refusing to come down. we don't know if he is wounded or if he is, how badly. his brother he knows was shot to death and killed last night in the car chase that ended here in watertown with authorities. could it be a negotiating situation? how do they keep him alive? that is very important because officials of course hopefully will try to get some information from him on how, what some of his high school friends earlier today, neil, told me a nice guy. an average teenager who went
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to a pretty prestigious school in cambridge, the cambridge latin school down the block from harvard. even got a scholarship for something. in fact was a wrestler on the team sports. had friends, who he hung out with. his friends saying he was a nice guy and could not just put two and two together how it may have happened. how he may have been radicalized over last year or two, potentially by his brother or through the internet. we had reports of youtube videos he and his brother or at least people claiming to put on youtube praising al qaeda and usama bin laden and calling for jihad against the infidels. that will be americans. how did this happen? are there more? will this happen again? tonight right now here in watertown the big issue is how do authorities make sure he is captured and taken alive so he can get some answers to the so many questions that everyone, and all authorities will have on how we got here today, right now at this point.
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so the situation is still very fluid, on going at this moment. we believe he is surrounded. we just have to see how this plays out. neil: and as, eric, as you pointed out crucial to authorities on the scene, who i talked to throughout the day, they really do want to get, certainly with his brother last night in the shootout because if there are links to chechen rebels and islamic extremes as beee insinuated by a lot of law enforcement officials who note the ties to chep chen rebels them -- chep chen rebels them because it would be a crucial link and address any of those concerns. that begs the next question, here, eric are and i know you can't possibly be inside the mind of authorities on the sceee here that these explosions, if they're not coming directly from the police, it would lead one to believe that the younger
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brother, like the older brother not only armed to the teeth or boobpy trapped himself or near booby-trapped type devices if you get too close you will hear a lot of explosions. >> that could be possible. they said they found explosive devices and another unexploded pressure cooker today in cambridge where they searched his house where he lived. you have to remember he is in the car chase. he is on foot. he had the presence of mind, neil, right after the gunfight last night to go to the bank of america atm machine, get his card and he got cash. he got money according to sources in the middle of all this last night. you have to wonder if he has bombs on him or if he has a saw side vest or if he is rigged booby-trapped in some way, one may thing though he may not, if he has been on the run in such a desperate situation, climbing into
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that boat, hiding out, like a hunted person trying to escape the attention of authorities which today, thanks to that woman and her eagle eye and maybe thanks to the fact that they lifted that order that had everybody shelter in place. that was pretty remarkable. right here where i was standing this all came down within 45 minutes or so of the authorities saying yes, they don't have him. he is armed and dangerous. police should call 911 or fbi if they think they see him. do not try to engage in any conversation with him but admitting that he got away last night because they were not able to establish a perimeter in time during that gunfire last night. by the way i want to point out there are also reports that a bomb robot, a robot has been sent in by thatt3 boat. this may all be a part of that operation, neil. neil: eric shawn, thank you very, very much. that was a very profound
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important point eric added there, much of this is really soon after authorities on the scene had sort of eased that lockdown going on in boston and particularly in the watertown area so folks could come back out of their homes and walk around, you heard about the young woman who was walking her dog. so they had a chance to look around and see things. we're told one woman noted to say, strips of blood that go to this boat on the back of a neighbor's house and then, says, hey, there is somebody in there. the long and short of it is, somebody could and i stress could, be the second suspect here. you hear so much talk about dzhokhar tsarnaev. the reason why authorities are handling this so gingerly they do want to capture him alive. over the course of the last 24 hours we have learned especially after the shootout last night in watertown as well when dzhokar's older brother tamerlan was killed, that
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they had links to chechnya. they were born in chechnya. you miiht rorl that is the break away russian republic that couldn't break away. russia would not allow it. under three different prime ministers would never entertain it. the reason why that is crucial, chechen rebels, if there is a link to the outfit we know there is the chechen separatist it is, and there is no way to prove that, if there is they take no mercy. nine times out of 10 when there was a violent act two years ago in movie theater, two years prior to that in a school and i think about a year before that in a hospital, each time the rebels are surrounded they kill themselves, often times, i believe in the case of the school attack claimed better than 40 kids lives. they blow themselves up. in that case with a number of kids. that's why given that history and give the precedent that rebels would rather kill themselves than
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ever, ever, surrender to police, authorities are on the scene are handling with the greatest of care. so you can understand why we sort of just wait and watch. they desperately want to get this guy in custody, alive. not necessarrly well, because, by all indications he has been shot and wounded, and, we know at the very least he was and is bleeding. how severe those wound are is anyone's guess but authorities at the scene are telling fox, that that indications are he is alive, down but not dead as they say. so just exactly who is this young man who had straight as in school, the scholarships, was considered a promising rising star, a peaceful, kind, decent, almost humble human being described by classmates as the last guy in the world you'd expect trouble from. george is was the suspect's
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old boss and is a block from where all of this is going down. george, what do you think of what's happening? >> well, it's a pretty wild here. i come back from overseas and come into my own neighborhood, we're in gunfights here. i came, you know, the lockdown was ended. so my wife and i went outside to stretch our legs. next thing i saw all these vehicles are speeding down the police street, the police vehicles, and i started walking down myself and heard a bunch of of gunshots, and i ccme down to the end of my street which is otis, and franklin is right on the corner here. the place was surrounded. it got real quiet for quite a while. looked like the police were just holding back. then about 20 minutes ago we heard another series of bursts that sounded like gunshots and explosions, about five of them i think. i couldn't count but there might have been more.
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so it is pretty wild. i hired this young man a few years ago when he was only 16. he was much nice kid --. neil: tell me a little bit about that, george. we have a lot hits you left and right we appreciate you taking the time. a lot of folks whether law enforcement authorities or after ran -- average americans, bostonians they want it know about this guy. what was he like? almost everything i heard would give no hint what we're seeing ensue tonight. what can you tell us? >> well, i can only say from my short experience with him as, you know i interviewed him. he was very polite young man. very well-spoken and articulate. he worked well with everyone else that he was teamed with at the pool and, i only want to stretch, he was only a part-time worker and very intermittent. i haven't seen him for over a year and a half because i deployed in afghanistan. when i went back to work in
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august he had lore gone off to school. neil: do you remember, anything, george, that would have hinted either anger or, ant tip think toward the u.s.? we're told he had some serious issues with the united states some years back going into afghanistan and going into iraq. not to the point he was writing these long, nasty, incoherent miss serves but that he had expressed to those who knew him, like his older brother this was a mistake, a serious mistake and he dimt like it? >> right. i work in cambridge but a lot of people were against the war. neil: true. >> it wasn't that unusual but, he never expressed any political views to me. he wasn't praying five times a day. he seemed like a normal neighborhood kid. he came with a group of kids. they joked around with each other. looked like he had been totally assimilated.
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something must have happened in the last year or two. that is the only way i can explain it. like i say i wasn't here to witness that. so my memories of a younger man that had a lot of potential and it's tragic, i feel terrible and sorrow for the people that were killed by this person. he turned into a monster. and i think that is ideology, you know. ideology, i don't believe he was any chechen, went to any chechen camps or was in touch with chechnya. over the internet and with his brother he was influenced this way. that is only my personal opinion in the short time i knew him. neil: george mcmanus, thank you very, very much. we do appreciate it. again we are hearing from "the boston globe".com, its website the suspect has been identified in the boat moving. authorities are around this boat. the explosions, where they're originating from whether directed at the suspect or the suspect had
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something, that just might, you know, just, trigger on its own, is anyone's guess. the things have quieted down over the last seven or eight minutes. it doesn't necessarily mean they're close to solving this. he is still in the boat. they're still surrounding the boat and the house where the boat is housed in the back, but this has now become the focal point of a nightmare that started just this past monday, back with me is jack, former fbi age end, fbi bin laden leader in fact. jack, they want to get him alive. you were toll telling me that. there is always a effort to get the subject alive. what if it is possible he booby-trapped himself? >> they had a grenade and they threw at least seven pipe bombs. neil: would he have it on his person physically? would be attached to him? >> if it was a sucide vest.
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chechens are known to do that. neil: if he hadn't executed that or hasn't exploded himself he may not want to. >> may not want to and paramount is the public safety and safety of the we have what we have is hostage barricade situation and he may succumb to wound but they will take their time. right now we have the situation isolated. that is always a good thing. if we take him alive fine, but public safety is paramount. protect the officers. we'll see what happens. neil: whether we take him alive or not, and i understand the need to take him alive to examine whether to investigate if there is wider cell that links the brothers to other nefarious folks either here or abroad but what do you think of that? do you think that the brothers acted alone or that they had help? >> well i think the postmortem will happen pretty quickly. neil: right, right. >> we know there is something on the radar screen that the older
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brother may have been spoken to by the fbi two years ago. neil: that's right. he was scrubbed. thoroughly investigated. they didn't find anything out of the ordinary. i think there was a personal interview. i don't know how and why it was dropped but it was dropped. and two years later here we are. but what do you make of that just that? >> well i think those are questions that are serious questions that have to be answered because the information probably eminated from overseas and more than likely came from the russian government. you noticed after the hours after the explosion what leader came out. neil: vladmir putin. >> that leads me to comes to the fsbs, the russian equivalent of fbi. when they sat down and talked to the guy obviously they would have assessed information that come possibly from russia. the question then arises what was he doing? those are the questions that we really do need the answer. to the point of whether, whether the younger kid was self-radicalized here or the
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older brother, done training overseas, there is block of time, certainly for the older brother, certainly around six months. neil: who was leading whom? >> probably the older brother. younger brother was co-opted to some extent. neil: the younger brother assuming he was there at the shoot yet as well, how did he get out? how did he get out? >> he drove the car over his brother and ran for it. i don't think it is indicative that he had second thoughts. neil: the reason why i asked that that's been debated but your sources -- >> that is my understanding. neil: okay. >> so, again, i think that this will probably end, hopefully nonviolently but i think there is a real possibility that it will. neil: if it does end violently and he is killed, regardless of his faith, it is raising questions again about whether we in this country have done a great job protecting our airports, our planes but maybe something like this, since
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it hadn't happened in a dozen or so years since 9/11, when many of us feared it would at either shopping malls or train station, the kind of stuff you and i were getting into prior, now it, the game changes. >> well the game changes and it changes dramatically frankly because it would appear there is nexus here in the states. whether there is something overseas remains to be seen. frankly we spent, we reinvented government since 9/11. certainly law enforcement on some level and certainly the intelligence community and we spent hundreds of millions of dollars. yet that is the fa no mon we -- phenomenon we all talked about and the phenomenon we worried about the lone wolf that is hackneyed phrase. we don't know if thhre is somebody out there if they are motivated by this particular episode. neil: right. think about terry nichols was motivated by waco, right? >> sure. if you look at web sites that support al qaeda, they are celebrating this event. they're saying to the united states, you're weak.
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look at the united states. two of our brothers have got the united states tied up in knots costing them millions of dollars. this is what we're supposed to do. adam gadd dan, spokesperson for al qaeda, what he told everybody. the fatwa is alive. go out and kill americans wherever you find them. frankly do it without a lot of effort. neil: so, jack, just to bring my thick skull up to speed, you think there's going got to be a foreign connection, there has got to be a link to chechen group, islamist group, that these guys are not acting totally alone? >> what i'm saying there is distinct possibility. we don't know that. but that will be pretty much confirmed in the coming days. right now --. neil: but if there is, that alone, what does that tell you? >> well, it seems we have a new front because chechens haven't attack the united states. their effort has been independence and targeting russia. neil: but they got mad at us supporting russia in their rebel fight against russia.
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>> of course. let me point something out to. chechnya, the first war and second war, has always been celebrated by al qaeda and like-minded groups. when osama bin laden issued his fatww in 1996, that long ago he encouraged people to go to chechnya and to fight. so chechens, as we sit here tonight, they're operational in spain. they're operational in western europe. and obviously in chechnya. and i think this could be a manifestation of something. and why they're targeting the united states? well they believe that the united states is at war with islam. so why not. that's all they need. neil: we're already at war in their eyes? >> that's true. neil: how widespread does this get? >> exponentially it can go any place because the information now, they have, they have adapt, right? they are using the web, all the technology that we have and that you use, they use and that's what they're trying to do. they know that they can't
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defeat the united states in a itch ed battle but they do know they inspire people to do these one-off situations and get the united states in a lot of angst sit -- angs angst anxiety. neil: they get a lot of attention. since osama bin laden they're like cockroaches spread out all over the world but they're there. and there are these individual cockroach cells that are expressing themselves and showing their rage. now i don't know if that is the case here but that was a fear then. is it a realistic fear? >> wealthy i it is. they have theaters of operation where they get absolutely the best training in the world, don't they, afghanistan, iraq and syria. there are chechens operating in syria. so they practice their skills. why not bring it to extend the front to the united states. it is not a wild speculation on our part. neil: normally they go for bigger body counts. >> they would but there is lot of discussion whether this was sophisticated or
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unsophisticated, but in my view whether it is a pressure cooker bomb, they kill peopll. that is very sophisticated. they stayed underneath the radar for a period of time. there is level of sophistication and planning here. let's not cast these people out as crazy ppople. -pthey're deliberate. they're patient. and they see us as the number one enemy in the world. let's not forget that. neil: well-said. jack. who knows this as well. if he is right these matters don't rest with whatever happens tonight. again it bring up to speed for those tuning in if you want to know what is it going on in watertown, massachusetts, seems like sort of drastic deja vu all over again. a little more than 24 hours after his brother was killed in a shootout with the police, now, dzhokhar tsarnaev, is literally up a creek in a boat without a paddle himself, hiding in a boat that the "boston globe" is now confirming, ap traed
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rat. a guy with no place to go. injured we're told. bleeding we're told. but obviously with enough shots at explosions back and forth to indicate to authorities at the scene he is armed and that is something we are almost definitely told. the question how much he has on him and whether he will go out in a blaze of glory if they get much closer. again the history with chechen rebels is that, not only do they go out in a blaze of glory and virtually never surrender, they try to make sure a lot of others go out with them. that is the history in chechen attacks in and around russia for the better part of a decade now. one of the most ruthless terror groups known to man. but i should stress that chechen connection, even though by birth, that is the brother's link, does not mean that that is the case here but obviously as you can see from authorities at the scene they're not taking any chances. former boston mayor ray
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flynn on the phone with us right now. mayor, what do you make of what's going on? >> well, you know, this has been a very, very painful period of time for us, neil. i was at the boston marathon. i ran in the boston marathon many, many times but more importantly than that, you know my grandchildren were at the finish line, four of them and they actually were right there when the explosion took place, right in front of them. so they saw. they and so many other young people, children, saw the horror, the horrific explosion and, it obviously will be with them for the rest of their life. but, you know, this has had such an impact on boston. i have never seen boston in this level of panic and fear it is in, that it has been at this point in time. we had two special days, neil. we had patriots' day. for any of us who lived in boston all our lives, grew up here, we know what patriots' day means, liberty,
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freedom, the birthplace of american freedom. we also know the boston marathon, one. most celebrated, one of the most prestigious and one of the greatest sports events in our city's history. we know the meaning of both of those days and that whole sentiment of patriots' day and the boston marathon was shattered on this one monday afternoon in boston, massachusetts. neil: mayor, what do you think of the fact that post that, obviously you're quite right, if changed everyone's sense of security in boston. >> yeah. neil: and essentially your fine city had been in lockdown, certainly over the last 24 hours or as close to a lockdown that you can get. a little more than an hour ago, you know, the mayor and the governor, sort of lit that lockdown or eased some of the restrictions. lo and behold people come out of their houses. one woman talked about walking her dog. i don't know whether it is a good or bad thing, what we
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discovered the process, neighbors got out and looked around, one neighbor says i lead blood droppings to a boat with a can owpy over it and calls the police and you know the rest of the story. so do you think lifting those restrictions and allowinn people to come out of their homes was a good thing in the end, a bad thing? a risky thing, what? >> neil before i got into politics i was a probation officer in superior court in boston. we investigated all criminal cases. i would not have listed lifted the band. i would let the people go out there and see what they can see. they're usual lynn the best sources of information for investigators because they are there. they know the people. they know the territory. they know the chemistries of the community. you know, we have to do a lot of things differently than what we've been doing in it country since 9/11. i think we responded to 9/11, we're lucky in many respects but i don't think we put in place the sophisticated
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preventive measures necessary in order to protect the american people. neil: all right, mayor, thank you very much. as the mayor was speaking just want to confirm with you that they are talking, that is boston authorities, to three possible suspects in new bedford, massachusetts. whether they are linked it directly to this or they could just be witnesses and they just want to hear them out is anyone's guess but this is where it takes, a good opportunity to check in with a fine legal mind, proscutorial mind, someone happens to be mayor of new york city, at one of the most calamitous moments in american history, rudy giuliani joining us right now. mayor, thank you for taking the tile. what do you make of what you're hearing, seeing right now? >> well looks like we're coming to a conclusion. whether they get him alive or dead it looks like it is over for him. neil: preferable to get him alive, right. >> of course it is preferable to get him alive because you will get answers or probably get a lot of the
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answers if you have him arrive -- alive. he will really have the choice over that. is he going to be taken or start a gunfight and kill himself. you don't have control over that. neil: what do you do in that kind of a case, you got a crazy. you got someone who obviously means harm, loaded for bear. it is obvious that the police and authorities are being cautious to approach him. they obviously have exchanged gunfire. >> they already killed some people. neil: right. we heard explosions. there is the fear, much as we've seen in other tear record attacks -- terror attacks he could have a dynamite vest. who knows. >> there is no rush. patience is the right answer. he doesn't have hostages. you don't have to worry about saving innocent people. he is pretty darn isolated. i don't imagine, whatever explosive devices he has it can do much damage except to him. neil: to him, right. >> unless they get to close to him. neil: i would imagine why
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they're careful as well. they don't want to get too close. >> they sent the robot in. they can send the robot in again or send another robot. neil: the robot would confirm he has a bomb. the robot would confirm, well, we better not get too close. >> that's right. neil: what do you do? >> we wait him out. neil: you know, you're a good student of history, too, mayor, the history with chechen extremists they kill themselves when they're cornered. >> there is something interest here. neil: that he hasn't. >> he had plenty of time to kill himself. he hasn't killed himself. maybe he wants to live, i don't know. neil: he is 19. we forget he is 19. >> you don't know the inner works of a mind like this. you've been spending examining all evening what is he like? how did he turn? he seemed like a good kid, now he is a bad kid. who knows what is going on in his mind. right now there is no reason to rush this thing. there is no reason to push it. nobody else is in jeopardy. the only one in jeopardy right now is him. if you want to get him alive, you have to have a lot of
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patience, examine the whole situation. make sure you don't put any law enforcement officer in jeopardy. if there is any jeopardy to them you kill him right away. but at this point they have see if you wait him out. see, maybe there is this desire not to kill himself. look, they have had several
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>> if they are self-created jihadists,
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it's hard to pick up. like this, nobody picked it up. i don't know if we've seen any indications of things maybe we should have paid attention to earlier like after 9/11, there was a group of things you could have looked at, and got an idea that september 11 was coming. now, i don't fault anyone for not seeing them. it was a needle in a hay stack. neil: hindsight is 20/20. we are hearing from the state department producer that the foreign government, i'm making the lead, mayor, that it's the russian government, alerted us to entities within the united states including the older brother, the brother who dieded last night, and that he should be -- he should be studied, examinedded, and i guess the legal definition that the state department went ahead and fully scrubbed him, by that, they explored, studied, examined all his connections, relationships,
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business transactions and interviewed the guy. they had him on a watch list. that was two years ago and moved on. what are you to make of that? >> i don't know. the russian government, for a long time, has been warning us about chechnya rebels. i was -- neil: in our midst? >> rebels there, in our midst, telling us that for a long, long time. i was in -- i was in russia two or three dayings after the horrid attack when the chechnya rebels killed owl the children. neil: that's right. >> in the school. they are vicious people. now, i was told by any number of russian firms at that time that we don't take this chechnyan situation seriously enough, meaning the u.s., that we should understand it better, be on their side with all the difficult things they do to the chechnyans. there's a separation there where our government, goes back to bush and continues in the obama administration, felt that putin
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maybe has gone too far. putin's contention is i'm dealing with monsters here. you don't understand, you're facing the same risk. there's a real issue there. neil: a weighty issue. mayor, i know you have to go, but talking about separatists in europe and what's going on in chechnya, and -- >> that's why we have to be very, very careful about what we -- neil: that's a lot of money too. that's a lot of money, time, and effort to follow every single nefarious -- >> careful what we buy into and get it right because if we want to predict the next situation, we've got to know how this situation really emerges. neil: if this brother is killed, the father said abroad as you might have heard, woe to the united states if you harm my son. >> that was a heck of a comment. that was a chilling -- neil: it was chilling. makes me think whether these brothers then, in that sense, are a martyr for a cause that's not good. >> well, it'll be another issue for us to deal with. we've actually, with this
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incidenn aside and major hassan, we have been successful. i don't agree fully, i think the country is safer today than it was before september 11. it's hard to say after a thing like monday, but i know about a lot of the incidents stopped in the last 12 years. many of those incidents would not have been stopped before september 11, and we would have had a dozen attacks rather than one or two attacks. neil: reassuring. thank you, mayor. >> thank you. neil: very, very much. a lot of perspectives. we are now told an eerie quiet ascended in watertown, no more shots or explosions, not much of anything, and to the mayor's point, it could be them just waiting this guy out, but, again, we have not had any activity of any sort in this sort of quiet, eeria calm ensuing, and you're looking -- can you look at the live shot? that's, i guess, the closest you
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get, so whether that means the alleged assailant is dead or unconscious or they are just waiting him out, i have to -- no idea, but things have quieted down there. -epublican congressman in pennsylvania serves on the homeland security committee. chairman, i want to relay something from the good mayor, and that is, we have to be careful making immediate sweeping connections. in this case, the popular chechnyan one. what do you think? >> right on target. he's a radicalized american. the brother may have gone over to chechnya and pick up some skills and further radicalization and probably came here and influenced his brother. we got to be very, very careful before we draw the connections, and let me jump to the second point that you talked about a great deal tonight, neil, which is i think that's why it's so vitally important that every
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effort is made to get this guy out alive. the thought of americans want him with a bullet in the head, the fact of the matter is -- neil: as you're talking, i just -- i don't want to alarm people now, this is from earlier when the sec round of shots were fired in watertown about an hour and 15 minutes ago. a lot of parents and kids were clearing out of the area. i don't want people to learn that that is happening at this very second. that was awhile ago. sorry, go ahead. >> the idea is that there's a great bit of information that may be able to go with him, and i think it's important that he gets out of there if we can get him out alive, that that's the way it's done. neil: chairman, we're getting news from the state department producer, maybe more on this chechnyan link. i know guys like you have trouble sleeping at night pouring through this stuff. i don't want you to ever
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compromise your security knowledge although if you want to drop it on this show, feel free, but tamerlan, the older brother killed last night, had traveled overseas, left boston for moscow in january 2012, returned in july 2012, and they traveled on his kurdistan passport. now, the timing interesting, as you know, sir, because on september 11th, 2012, he received his u.s. visa, same day his brother received his u.s. citizenship, so it gets a little murky, i understand, but to the foreign travels alone raise eye eyebrows to you? >> yeah, they certainly do.
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especially, when somebody goes back for that period of time, a six-month period is a significant travel back. neil: but it's home for him. like i have relatives in italy. if i went to see them in italy. so -- >> yeah, but, you know, here's a guy -- neil: why would that be unusual just explain why that catches your attention. >> because, you know, it's a home, but generally, at that age, you have a life, you have a job, a thing that you're working on, and to go back and forth, reports he has a family and other things, you know, uncommon for people unless they got significant means to be living to freely for such long periods of time. neil: right, it was just a few months apart. let me ask you this, then, sir. would it be more of a worry to you, lone wolf or lope wolves, if they had a foreign link? i think i heard you say at one
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time that, you know, people who want to kill you, american or not, are still dangerous, but if there's a link to bad elements abroad or, you know, you know, extreme, that's a new game, isn't it? >> well, we had hearings on just this issue, neil, and we call it grassroots terrorism. this has been the devra davis luges of the al-qaeda and sort of highly organized structure to send in the efficient sort of team oriented, well-trained event that hit mayor julianny's town replaced with the idea of the self-radicalized, you know, limited kind of an event, but still would create terror around our country and the kind of issues that are, you know, arising today. we've seen this radicalization sort of where things are moving, and i think it's the formula we'll see well into the future.
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neil: chairman, thank you very, very much. i have a feeling you have a busy few weeks. we appreciate your time. >> one of the interesting things, now, neil, is the question if they get him out alive, what happens with the miranda rights? one of theeissues we worked in congress and a very concerned about is whether he runs right away and gets a lawyer. i think there needs to be a u.s. attorney right beside those fbi agents. there's a public safety exception in a time like this that they have to get to the guy and find out as much as they can about any other kind of imminent threat before he lawyers up and nobody talks to him. neil: your fear is if he's killed it complicates things? >> oh, absolutely. not only what we might learn, but what we need to learn about what may have happened in the months proceeding this. neil: okay, chairman, thank you very much. our local -- >> thank you, neil. neil: our local fox affiliate now reports now that the suspect
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is now in custody. this is, again, something we are hearing from the local fox affiliate. we have no other confirmation of that, but that the suspect is in dust di meaning he's been taken alive. we don't know what condition he's in, but to a friend and colleague and now producer on the scene when all of this went down, fox news on the ground, chris, you were there, actually, doing an interview or getting set for an interview when the latest round of bullets went off. tell us a little bit about it. >> that's right, neil. it was just after the press conference where people of watertown were told they were allowed to go outside and survey what's going on in the neighborhood. they were just coming out it stretch legs, walk the dog or pick up milk. obviously, you know, you prepare for a storm, but don't expect this to happen in the neighborhood so people didn't have supplies. one of the people who lived down the block, lit rally, seven
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houses from the incident last nights, when in the middle of the interview, there were gunshots, two dozen or so, and we were like, oh, god, i think that's gunshots, and we ran back to the location. they were loud and clear, and all the sudden, there was a lot of police activity, a lot of cars streaming by us, a squad car parked itself by where we are. we're about a mile east of where everything is happening right now, but, you know, loud and clear, we could hear it. it was crazy. neil: we're hearing, chris, don't mean to interrupt, my friend, but he's in custody, that this guy is in custody, that he's in custody. have you heard anything to that effect? >> no, we have not heard anything. in fact, we were just driving trying to get closer to the actual scene, and we kept getting stopped by police,s police barricades preventing us to get closer than a mild told it was a fluid situation, and
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until it was stable, we couldn't get closer. as of five minutes ago, as far as we knew, it was a standoff. neil: chris, i lied, one more question for you. that is, when the governor allowed folks to come out of their homes and walk the dog, do all of that, there's been criticism back and forth whether that was the right thing to do, obviously, because this ensued only minutes later. are you getting any indications from folks that this suspect would have never been cornered or even found had it not been for easing that crackdown? >> caller: no. i mean, people -- people are just hanging out here waiting. they started congregated as soon as -- actually, as soon as the gunshots went off, they came out more. they initially were just coming out hesitantly to see what was going on, there was a large police presence in the neighborhood. people said they felt safe, but,
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you know, they were nervous for the night, but no, nothing as far as that goes. neil: okay. , chris, good job as always, thank thank you, my friend. just to bring you up to speed, and, again, this is coming via fox affiliate in boston, but they have been to the point and accurate from when this first ensued, and remember the release of the pictures and along the end of the marathon route, the famous now, infamous more to the point, showing the alleged assailant within feet of that 8-year-old boy killed in the attack dropping a package off. it was the fox affiliate that had the video, that image. i take this not with a grain of salt at all to say that the suspect is now in custody. this is the 19-year-old -- this is the same -- the guy you see in the white cap here pictured.
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if we could show that again because that is going to be an iconic, rather tragic image from the entire day. they blacked out or grayed out some of the faces in that scene, but just in front of him to the left, we're not going to show you, but in front of him to the left is that 8-year-old little boy who died in that attack. his sister next to him lost her legs in that attack, and their mom, still clinging to life in that attack. they were all waiting for their dad about to cross the finish line. it would appear that he's now in police custody. the fellow in the white cap that became the subject of an international man hunt is now in police custody. former ms. governor on the phone with us right now. governor, that is true, obviously, a relief. what do you make of this? >> caller: well, quite a week around here. it's a tragedy.
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who knows what the motivation of the two brothers was, doing what they did, but it appears now one is dead; the other's in custody, and we'll just have to try to assess at this point why it happened, why they did it, and in the mean time, this has been a very strong city. i got to tell you, i'm very proud of this town, and of my state. people have. terrific. the professionalism of police and fire and medical personnel has been remarkable, and i think we're all proud to be from boston, even in the face of all of this. neil: governor, believe me, in the middle of fire, you don't want to cast dispersions, but do youuthink it was a good decision on the part of the governor to ease that lockdown? you can argue it was because it got people out of the homes and one of those folks found blood that led to a boat and under the canopy, the alleged attacker.
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others argue, well, it endangered their lives doing so when within minutes there would be the shooting rampage. >> well, we had great leadership from the governor on this, and i wouldn't second guess him for a minute. look, i've been not in this particular kind of situation, but i certainly had to deal with serious emergencies as governors, and you rely heavily on your professionals to guide you, i'm sure he did that, but he gets an a-plus in the terms the way he conducted, not only himself, but what happened here, and i think overall it's been a terrific effort on the part of everybody involved, and the fact of the matter is this kid now apparently is in custody, and that's the important thing. neil: all right, talking to former governor, in fact, presidential candidate, michael, on the phone now, and taken by
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police, in custody, we are not aware of the condition. governor, curious from your vantage point, everyone says it's crucial they since the brother was killed last night, that they get this guy alive because there are fears that he is their only link, that is the surviving brother, to whatever links this -- these brothers might have had to foreign elements with the chechnyan rebels, islamic extremists. you heard that. do you agree with that? >> caller: with what? that it's important to take him alive? sure. neil: do you think from that we glean foreign links, and does that worry you? >> caller: at this point, i don't know that we know that, if there are foreign links.3 we, obviously, want to know it. i have no doubt that there are people around the world that engage in terrorism every day,
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but don't -- if anything, at best, put things -- it's important to find out, and in that sense, the fact he's been taken alive is a good thing, sure. neil: all right, governor, thank you very much. you might have heard what sounded like -- can you go to the audio from there, guys? i want to hear what's going on. [cheers and applause] neil: all right. that would be very happy sounds. that would be applause for police and rescue personnel on the scene in watertown, massachusetts within news that apparently now confirmed by local police tweets -- tweeting? what would it be? tweets? they tweeted that they got the guy, and he is now in custody. michael sullivan, former acting
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director of the atf, former u.s. attorney from massachusetts, very good to have you, sir. obviously, a lot of happy folks there. you see a lot of police and officials now coming back. this scene is apparently ended. a lot of applause, a lot of happy folks. what do you think? >> i think we feel the same way. first, breathe a sigh of relief he's been captured, and, you know, the public is feeling safer at this moment in time, but there's a lot of work that needs to be done. neil: now what? what does a guy like you want to hear out of this? out of this guy, you talk to him, what do yoo want to hear? >> well, you want to get as much information as you possibly can. does he have any accomplices? are there like-minded people here within our country, within our state, within our city that pose a great risk to, you know, to the american public and the united states interest? what ties does he have overseas? you know, what made him a
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radicalized terrorist that caused so much destruction, you know, killing four people, injurying almost 200 people. i mean you want to get as muchh3 information as you can from him, but that's not going to be the only source of information. neil: okay. i want to alert viewers back home. we'll stay with this, either i will here, or we'll have friends at fox news channel to similar -- simulcast this. either way, we'll keep you on top of this. it's hard to cover the news in a moment, so if you'll just indulge my house cleaning here, but, sir, i did want to get a sense of this idea that doesn't matter whether so much in the united states killing americans or linked to groups outside the united states who want to kill americans. they are still killing americans, and we still got a new war on terror, and maybe a new front on this war, that is going to change our mind set.
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is it, should it, what down? >> wwll, absolutely. we have to remain vigilant. we saw this post-9/11. neil: what does that mean? when you say "vigilant" take resources focused on airports and things like that to public events, shopping malls, stadiums, that stouter of -- sort of thing? >> no, i think you to do both. counterterrorism, counterintelligence, identify, you know, those radicalized groups that are used to infriewns young people in our country that turned into, you know, potential terrorists causing terrific harm and damage, you know, like what we saw this past monday. neil: okay, what happens now? a lot depends on the severity of the, you know, alleged wounds. he'll be surrounded.
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neil: authorities questionedded him, and either nothing came of it, got a clean bill of help, or security help. i don't know what the process is. you do, obviously. what's that mean? what were they exploring? why do you think the government would reach out to the united states to the agree it did to
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warp us about someone? >> depends how much information they have, and sometimes if they are not sure, rather than have any bad relations happen later, they say we have some information, we're passing it to you, doing the right thing, and it may not be much, but we're just doing the right thing, look into this. on our side, we will go. we'll do an interview, go to the perp's house, see how much information we can collect, but if there's nothing there at that moment, there's only so much you can do. you can only assess the that moment. neil: do you have a hunch, though? you are good at what you do, a hunch, like, you know, i know everything's coming up okay, but something about this guy just unsettles me. >> the thing is this, you can have a hunch, and usually that hunch is right, that sixth sense, whatever you have, but at the end of the day, we have to abide by the confines of the law, and if we don't have anything -- neil: what do we do then, in this case, two years ago, whatever the hunches were of the

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